Takes and trash talk from both ALL sides of the NHL's most obscure PATHETIC* rivalry

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Tuesday, September 16, 2008

Ducks put Schneidermayer on Waivers

Well, so much for the BoC Collaboration. Instead of waiting any longer for a trade partner, it appears that Mathieu Schneider is headed the way of the Bryzgalov:

The Anaheim Ducks, needing to trim payroll, have placed defenseman Mathieu Schneider on waivers with the expectation that a team will claim him and $5.75 million salary for this season.

Once they move Schneider off the books, the Ducks are expected to re-sign Teemu Selanne.
I don't really have any problem with this move, as I have been expecting very little in return for the productive Schneider. Basically, the ability to get under the salary cap and to bring back the Finnish Flash is plenty of return for me.

I'm in quite the hustle this morning, so this is a hasty post (note the previously-posted image), but I'll put together something more once he's claimed (if he's claimed, I guess). Still, feel free to react to the move in the comments.

Go Ducks.

[EDIT, 1 PM: As usual, the OC Register's Dan Wood provides the best perspective on the situation and its possible outcomes.]

[EDIT, 3:30 PM: Looks like the Kings are going to pass. Probably because it costs money.]

[EDIT, 4:30 PM: Moving away from MSM blogs (side gripe: I guess I should comment anonymously at these sites; both the OC Register and Inside the Kings have removed my comments presumably because I write for BoC. Hooray for freedom!), The Falconer makes a numbers-driven case for why the Thrashers should pick up Schneider.]

[EDIT, 9:30 AM: Back to Dan Wood. 29 teams passed and Schneider cleared waivers. On to Plan B!]

43 comments:

RudyKelly said...

The waiver wire goes in reverse order from last season's finish, right? If the Kings don't pick him up I'll be furious.

Earl Sleek said...

Yeah, per Mirtle:

The waiver system ranks teams based on their finish last season until Nov. 1, meaning Tampa Bay would have first crack at Schneider. The Kings, Thrashers, Blues and Islanders would then be next in line.

So long as TB doesn't stay crazy, it's Lombardi's option, I'd say.

RudyKelly said...

Tampa doesn't have the cap space unless they do something else. Can you pick someone up if it puts you over the cap?

Earl Sleek said...

I think in theory, you could, but it seems awfully unlikely. During the summer there's an allowance to be over the cap, but that window is closing very soon.

Anonymous said...

How long before people start bashing Burke again? Schneider was an UFA signing so it's not like any assets were given up for him in the first place. Disappointing but, if it means Teemu coming back then, yay.

Itlan said...

Anonymous said...

How long before people start bashing Burke again?
That never ended....

Itlan said...

This move, along with some other moves/non-moves does indicate that Burke is not good at doing trades unless they are dropped in his lap (Pronger). I think he has been emasculated.
If picked up, it would be no strings attached. If pick up on re-entry waivers, the Ducks would be on the hook for 50%. What is the hit if the Ducks buy him out? Since he has only 1 year left would it be a full salary cap hit?

Earl Sleek said...

If there's one lesson I've learned in being a Ducks blogger the last couple of years, people cannot wait to bash Brian Burke.

It really doesn't even matter what he actually does or says (or what realities exist in the trade market). He's an idiot just for being Burke, apparently.

Oh well, at least it's not a new phenomenon.

Earl Sleek said...

This move, along with some other moves/non-moves does indicate that Burke is not good at doing trades unless they are dropped in his lap (Pronger).

Yeah, but I don't know. People like to talk a lot about how much they would have gotten for Bryzgalov or Schneider, but I don't see it. There's enough quality netminders in this league that the trade market is very slim, and likewise for an expensive blueliner the week before training camp.

He did make a cagey trade of Fedorov back in the day, at least. I don't know if that one fell into his lap.

If picked up, it would be no strings attached. If pick up on re-entry waivers, the Ducks would be on the hook for 50%. What is the hit if the Ducks buy him out? Since he has only 1 year left would it be a full salary cap hit?

I think the buy-out period is over, so it's most likely scenario A. If it does get to scenario B, I'd guess that Burke keeps Schneider and pursues other alternatives. Paying half of Schneider's salary doesn't do the Ducks a lot of good.

voxel said...

If there's one lesson I've learned in being a Ducks blogger the last couple of years, people cannot wait to bash Brian Burke.

Time to promote him to President of Hockey Operations then and make Nonis the GM :)

Itlan said...

Last year with Bochenski (or maybe it was someone else), the Duck put him on waivers, but he was never sent down to the minors. In fact, he appeared in a game 2 days later. Is that possible with Schneider? To put him on waivers but not re-entry waivers?

voxel said...

To put him on waivers but not re-entry waivers?

Yes, I think so. He can clear waivers, you you don't need to send him to the minors. Marcus Nilson recently went through the same situation (wasn't bought out nor assigned to the minors) so he could play in Russia.

Earl Sleek said...

Marcus Nilson recently went through the same situation (wasn't bought out nor assigned to the minors) so he could play in Russia.

I was chatting with Mr. Mirtle just yesterday and half-joked that Burke might want to keep some KHL promotional material handy in case Lombardi got cold feet.

Earl Sleek said...

Per the Ducks website, the claim window closes at 9 am Pacific tomorrow, so I suppose we'll get our answers pretty soon.

Damn, it's been a very long time since I linked to the official website.

Niekon said...

Spector made comments on this over in his section of the world too...

Basically Schneider would have to be claimed on waivers or he'll get bumped down to the minors, he'd just be a really expensive player in the minors.
If he's claimed off of re-entry waivers then there is no way Selanne gets singed without dropping another player.

Earl Sleek said...

Thanks, Niekon.

If he's claimed off of re-entry waivers then there is no way Selanne gets signed without dropping another player.

I guess I should point out that most of this summer I've been expecting that Todd Marchant is probably a cap casualty as well. Even if Schneider gets claimed cleanly, I'd expect another shoe to drop -- the Ducks don't really belong near the salary cap ceiling, though they can probably manage that further down the road.

Mike in OC said...

I hope Tampa trades away some salary and claims him. That team would be night and day compared to last season with all the moves.

I REALLY hope the Kings do not get him. I have no idea what they are thinking. Could have got Bryz, but Dean said a 4th round pick was too much for a possible head case?

Could have got Schnieder for free, but presumably wanted Anaheim to add picks to the deal?

Screw em. At least Tampa is trying to ice a competitive team, so my vote is with them. (Thank god my vote don't mean crap.)

Also, Pronger did not fall into Burke's lap, a lot of teams offered trade packages (including the Kings), Burke's was just the package Lowe felt was best.

Earl Sleek said...

I REALLY hope the Kings do not get him. I have no idea what they are thinking.

I should have written a post about this, but in the last couple of days I've sort of convinced myself that it's not actually in the Kings' best interest to get Schneider.

I mean, it totally would be if they were interested in (a) wins, or (b) fan perception, but if this is really going to be the only move that separates them from the cap floor, I don't really think that Lombardi has shown much interest in either (a) or (b).

Still, I don't know why Kings fans keep coming at me with "What UFA could Lombardi have gotten for 1 year? Hossa said no." There's opportunities out there for Lombardi to better his team, but if he's not going to take any of them, I think he should probably pass on Schneider too. It's a gesture that's pretty meaningless on its own.

Also, Pronger did not fall into Burke's lap, a lot of teams offered trade packages (including the Kings), Burke's was just the package Lowe felt was best.

Sure, but the very fact that he was available and had to be traded was a situation that didn't fit the player. Edmonton shouldn't have had to listen to anybody's trade package for their best or second-best player of the postseason (depends on where you put Roloson).

Sarah said...

But wait, I thought Schneider was going to be easy to trade? Wasn't that the line all summer? They were just waiting for the right move? Wow. They couldn't even get someone to take Schneider for a few picks and had to put him on waivers.

Earl Sleek said...

But wait, I thought Schneider was going to be easy to trade? Wasn't that the line all summer?

I suppose, Sarah, but I don't know that this is very different. I've never expected value back on a Schneider trade; that's for sure. You can scour BoC and try to disprove that.

Prospect, pick, whatever. The win for Anaheim wasn't any of those; it is salary space.

Hey, it's a salary cap world. Sometimes good players get moved for seemingly nothing.

Sarah said...

I know, you've long said nothing was expected in return. They couldn't afford anything anyway! But honestly, that they put someone of this caliber on the waiver wire at pretty much the last minute when it could have been done all summer is pretty telling.

I have a VERY hard time believing an interested team had all summer to bite and wouldn't even for a low draft pick they don't care about. And on the flip side, if the Ducks weren't holding out for something, why not waive him earlier than the 11th hour?

TNG said...

Just adding some info about waivers: you don't have to send him down but after 10 NHL games or 30 days in the NHL roster, he has to go through waivers again in order to be sent down or released/bought out, etc.

I still think that is on LAs best interest to pick him up: a veteran defenseman that will only stay for a year (they will have plenty of cap space left even after signing O'Sullivan as we all know) and can teach something to a young defense corps. If they wait for reentry, Tampa will probably claim him first(they have the #1 pick). if they do it know, they would be forcing Tampa's hand (they're around 2.5M free, while Schneider will take $5.625M) and I don't know if the Lightning's dynamic owners duo would go for it.
so... pick him up already and save Anaheim of a considerable headache :p

Earl Sleek said...

But honestly, that they put someone of this caliber on the waiver wire at pretty much the last minute when it could have been done all summer is pretty telling.

Yeah, it is telling, but I don't know if I would have been happy if Burke started this process with waivers. At the very least he should find out what interest existed, and I'd say probably should have waited until the eleventh hour until, because team needs can change.

I have a VERY hard time believing an interested team had all summer to bite and wouldn't even for a low draft pick they don't care about.

Well, there's probably some Burke spite involved, but that's about the gist of it.

Whale4ever said...

"Schneidermayer".

Funniest thing I've seen all day.

Sarah said...

Oh, and by the way, that piece by Dan Wood was awesome.

I've said all along, people keep saying they need to move Schneider. Well, yeah, needing to and doing so are two different things.

Yes, he was the "odd guy out" and the move that makes the most sense... from Anaheim's perspective. But if it doesn't make sense from someone else's point of view, then why would they do it. I can see teams holding out for more, and unless Anaheim is willing to shell out more or take a new strategy (i.e., trade someone else), they're gonna be stuck.

Anaheim is screwed. They've got a great player with a big contract they can't seem to give away, and their only other value is locked up in a guy who is playing year by year, or the players that are the of the future of the team.

Mike in OC said...

Sarah, I never thought they would need to waive him, so it could have been Mike in OC, and not really BoC. You were correct in that respect though.

The time to move him was last season at the trade deadline. Can you imagine what they might have got?

I would not doubt spite might have played a part. Can never rule that out with Burke as your GM.

Earl Sleek said...

Anaheim is screwed. They've got a great player with a big contract they can't seem to give away, and their only other value is locked up in a guy who is playing year by year, or the players that are the of the future of the team.

We'll see. Just because the Kings don't want Schneider doesn't mean some other team might not bite.

Heck, Phoenix could take him and add him to the "Free Candy from Anaheim" pile.

Tigermask said...

The thing is if the Kings claim him now they get nothing but his services. Dean is banking on the fact that if no one else claims him (at that price no one might)then Burke would be forced to give up something in addition to Schneider in a trade. The Kings are then in the perfect position to give up little in return for Schneider + just so Burke can be rid of him. Dean is trying to use the Kings cap space as a tradeable commodity much like what happened with Gauthier. Sending Schneider to the minors doesnt work either since hes over 35 his full salary still counts...

Earl Sleek said...

The thing is if the Kings claim him now they get nothing but his services.

Yeah, I get what Dean-o is up to. Fair enough, it's his team.

I don't know what to expect, though. Even if he gets his way and nobody else seizes that opportunity, he'll get a Schneider that knows how stingy that GM can be. Tough to give 100% effort for a team that doesn't want to pay 100% of your salary.

If I'm a Kings fan, I'm probably hoping right now that guys like Kopitar don't pay great offseason attention to front office activity. Frugality and over-strategizing aren't messages I'd want sent to a guy I'm hoping wants to be the cornerstone to a franchise.

Kirsten said...

Don't worry, Sleek. The papers don't like me either. The Strib's beat hockey writer and I are having a competition to see who can dislike the other more.

I love to blame Brian Burke. It's just what I do. We all hate what we don't have, and much as I hate to admit it, Burke seems to have way bigger balls than Doug Risebrough.

Earl Sleek said...

I don't mind terribly, and if they'd rather I didn't indicate who was speaking, I can certainly manage that.

I guess I figured my comment at ITK would make more sense if people understood that I was coming from a Ducks fans's perspective, but I guess this Ducks fan's perspective isn't welcome. Odd thing was, I was basically agreeing with Kings fan commenters who said that they didn't need to spend $5.7M on Schneider this year.

Oh well, I guess that means we're a threat somehow.

Nut said...

This is the same thing you'll see Chicago, New York, and other teams that overpay for free agents (even more so over a lot of years) is that in the cap era it is really hard to get rid of said players without giving them away for free. I wouldn't be surprised to see Brian Campbell or Wade Redden get similar treatment in 3-4 years.

Sarah said...

...Even if he gets his way and nobody else seizes that opportunity, he'll get a Schneider that knows how stingy that GM can be. Tough to give 100% effort for a team that doesn't want to pay 100% of your salary...

He's already played for the Kings and knew then that the team talks about winning but really is about spending as little as possible. That they would get him for half-off would not be a shock or an insult.

Hell, he gave 100% for the Ducks last year even though he knew since January that they were going to get rid of him. Can't get much more deflating than that!

la patineuse said...

It's hilarious that the OC Register deleted your posts. I've read some of the posts on that blog and it's amazing what they let pass. I didn't think they had a mod/administrator around to actually delete posts.

Ian said...

I don't know what to expect, though. Even if he gets his way and nobody else seizes that opportunity, he'll get a Schneider that knows how stingy that GM can be. Tough to give 100% effort for a team that doesn't want to pay 100% of your salary.

That's the Dean-o we Sharks fans knew and loved. Well, didn't mind. Yeeeaaah. Tolerated. Umm. Didn't much like, especially around September.

Lombardi likes to think of everything as an "asset" he has, and deals with all situations strategically, using his leverage to win. He's playing chess, all the time. What he doesn't realize is that it's not chess, it's a Prisoner's Dilemma, and he ends up hurting his team by treating his players as assets that are only useful insofar as they allow him to win.

As far as I can remember, no Sharks player has held out since Doug Wilson assumed the GM position. Big name holdouts were a commonplace with Lombardi.

RudyKelly said...

So I guess Lombardi is banking on no one else picking up Schneider on waivers so Burke will have to trade him along with something else for nothing. Sounds kind of crazy, but then that Lombardi is a crazy son of a bitch.

Sarah said...

Not to be a bitch, but can I say "I'd so you so" yet?

Earl Sleek said...

Not to be a bitch, but can I say "I'd so you so" yet?

Sure, go nuts, but I guess I'm qualified to do the same.

See my season-ending post two days after the Ducks were eliminated last spring, where I raised the big 5 questions for the Ducks this summer:

1. Is Scott Niedermayer going to retire, and if not, can the Ducks find a trade partner to take Mathieu Schneider off the payroll?

This has been foreseeable for probably a year now.

Anonymous said...

Wait, I thought the whole point of you posting was to be a bitch? Sorry, I misunderstood.

Sarah said...

I slightly take it back. I see the comments in June that are seared in my mind didn't in fact come from you. (at least, not all of them). They just happened to be in your posts. =)

P.S. Oh, and I noticed I said in June no way in hell Schneider gets waived. See! Even *I* underestimated how desperate the Ducks would be by now!

Sarah said...

Wait, I thought the whole point of you posting was to be a bitch? Sorry, I misunderstood.

Well, Anonymous, the Ducks' crappy management brings out the best in me, what can I say.

Mike in OC said...

the Ducks' crappy management

Sarah, allthough the Ducks are in Cap purgatory right now, they did retain Perry and Getz. With Ryan, Pronger and JSG we have the core group taken care of. All this other bullshit was really just to try and get 1 more kick at the can, but I was happy with the results of 2007 and am willing to give that "crappy management" group a grace period of a few years to come.

How can you fault them for trying to win? Spending the money to contend now? It's better than the alternative, trust me.

BTW, how does Chicago, who is also way over the cap, trade Lang with no problems? Is Burke a marked GM, or are other teams afraid to help Anaheim because they are considered more of a threat?

Earl Sleek said...

Is Burke a marked GM, or are other teams afraid to help Anaheim because they are considered more of a threat?

I think it's way more about Explanation #1 (everyone hates Burke) than it is about Explanation #2.