Takes and trash talk from both ALL sides of the NHL's most obscure PATHETIC* rivalry

* Thanks, Kevin Lowe!

Wednesday, December 03, 2008

Ducks Gameday—The Avery Impact

Anaheim Ducks (14-9-3, 3rd in west) at Chicago Blackhawks (10-6-6, t-7th in west)
How much will this post cost me in karma dollars?


Instead of talking up this Chicago rematch, I'm going to throw my two rambly cents in on the Avery suspension. I don't like it.

Now don't get me wrong; there's a lot to dislike about Avery, including this recent set of inflammatory remarks, but you have to recognize Avery for what he is -- a sensationalist media creation. Over the years, reporters have glorified his personality and encouraged his bad boy behavior (which I can understand -- NHLers are generally too boring for newsstands). And that's the thing -- I do believe Avery's statements were intended more to feed the hungry media than they were to hurt Dion Phaneuf / Elisha Cuthbert's feelings. He was doing what he was expected to do -- agitate and entertain -- and more or less in the manner that he was trained to do.

It wasn't out of line with the media characterization that was built up over his career, nor with the persona that the Stars signed last summer. I dunno, it's like giving a dog a treat for coming inside six days a week but then beating it for doing so on Sunday -- maybe there was a vague line that was crossed, but I don't think Avery thought he was "detrimental to the League". If anything, he was promoting the league in the best way he knew how.

Sure, it's not normally acceptable behavior to be calling out players for their love lives, and we can debate the shock value of the words "sloppy seconds" compared to other word choices, but it's not as if this elephant wasn't already in the room -- Avery did manage to get himself in trouble without naming a single name. In a practical sense, Avery took a topic that dozens of hockey writers have already made crude jokes about and then shockingly made one himself.

In short, Avery was Avery, and the NHL suspended him for it without any strong precedent. As an isolated incident involving a rival team, I probably don't care about this that much, but I do worry about where it leads. We're already in a period where player interviews are purposefully bland and carefully measured, and while Avery is certainly not the model of ideal media interaction, he was different from the robotic mold and punished because of it. Going forward I think the NHL should probably publish a list of do-not-discuss guidelines -- it's a sham that they can't define a social barrier until after it's been crossed. Even so, as I point out in the cartoon, I suspect we'll see even less personality in front of a microphone from players in the future, and that general insincerity will probably be another barrier between the players and the fans, and that's sort of a shame.

Sean Avery is no hero, and I don't mean to present him as even a likeable figure, but it's really tough for me to see the rationale for the league's suspension. I think it's a dangerous path to discourage personality in front of the microphone without any specific guidelines, and we're probably in for a blander NHL as a result (though in fairness, we were probably in for that anyway). Anyways, I'm open to being convinced -- feel free to agree or disagree or add your own two cents in the comments.

And now to the part where Sleek gets suspended:

------------------------------------

Listen, I love Canada. It's just when it comes to Battle of Ontario teams hiring head coaches and general managers, they really seem to have fallen in love with Anaheim's sloppy seconds. I don't know what that's about.



Ron Wilson, Craig Hartsburg, Bryan Murray, and Brian Burke --
That pretty much spans the entirety of Anaheim's history right there.

Prediction: Last Friday the Ducks and Hawks skated to a 1-0 game in Anaheim, so I suspect Hiller might get the start tonight, but there's no real wrong answer in net right now. The Ducks do need to start scoring some goals, though, so let's say Ducks 5, Hawks 3. Goals by Getzlaf x2, S. Niedermayer, Pahlsson, and Perry.

Go Ducks.

59 comments:

Earl Sleek said...

Oh, and unrelated, it looks as if for the third time this season, a head coach has been fired. In this case, though, it's a coach who won a Stanley Cup since the lockout.

Look out, Carlyle!

Mike said...

...and the Ducks & Kings are getting Vancouver's sloppy seconds (in management, coaching and players). It's a sexy conspiracy!

Brandon said...

I'd be happy with thirds, when it comes to Elisha.

SK eleven said...

Thank you...I was already laughing at Avery and you just made it ten times funnier! ACTUALLY LAUGHING OUT LOUD AT MY DESK AT WORK...TOTALLY WORTH THE STARES!!!!

Mike in OC said...

What Avery said was not bad at all. Over reaction by the league IMO.

The sloppy seconds thing with regard to Burke is beginning to concern me. I could care less about Nonis, I hope they let him go, but where will it end? Getzlaf? Burke always goes after his old players. He drafted Pronger with Hartford and then brought him to Anaheim when he had the chance. He got Bertuzzi, and then Morrison.

I think he will make an offer to Pronger when his contract is up, and I would not be shocked if he goes after the Kids the second they become FA.

Basically, we need to kind of look over our shoulder now, and that kind of sucks.

Earl Sleek said...

The sloppy seconds thing with regard to Burke is beginning to concern me. I could care less about Nonis, I hope they let him go, but where will it end? Getzlaf?

I don't know if I'm very concerned about it, though you're probably right on Nonis and Pronger. Getzlaf and Perry are locked up long enough that they shouldn't be immediate concerns, and the Ducks will have opportunity to re-sign them before Burke will have a say in the matter.

Yeah, I'm indifferent as hell about Nonis, too. The only thing I hope is that somehow Anaheim can get some tampering compensation, as his involvement seems more suspicious than even Burke's step-down. I have no idea what's available down that avenue, however.

The one guy that does concern me a bit is Scott Niedermayer -- I have a feeling he may sign a cheap one-year deal next summer (in order to play in the Vancouver Olympics), and I have to think it's either going to be with Anaheim, Burke, or possibly Vancouver. I'd really like to be the beneficiary of any Niedermayer generosity (hey, we did give him 34 games off without much grief at all), but that one's still very much up in the air. He may not even give a discount at all.

I pretty much expect Pronger to leave once his contract is up, though. I'm not sure if it will be to follow Burke, but I imagine he'll get more money somewhere else than in Anaheim. Like Burke, though, I'll probably be OK with Pronger leaving. It was great to have him while he was here, but at some point it sort of just becomes time to split ways.

We'll see -- I'll probalby change my mind 30 times before next summer.

RudyKelly said...

Good stuff, Earl. I think people are spending too much time focusing on what Avery said and not enough on the fact that he was suspended for saying something. Playing hockey, I've called opponents the following:

-pussy
-fuck
-bitch
-asshole
-fag
-sexy
-cuckold (they didn't know what it meant)
-Greek
-tiny dick

I once told a guy that I loved him and wanted to see him after the game. He said no and I was crushed. You can't punish people for talking. Maybe you can in Canada, but not in the US.

Earl Sleek said...

No "fucktard"? I must say I'm disappointed that this wasn't at the top of the list.

I think Covered In Oil has also gotten me into the habit of calling everything that moves a goddamn dink. Usually that's when I'm driving around in my car, though.

Earl Sleek said...

And by the way, OC Register, you're hilarious.

Wooster11 said...

I have to disagree with you Earl. I think the suspension is actually warranted. It's one thing to talk trash and it's another thing to say derogatory things about other people who aren't really involved in hockey at all. In fact, a player would be suspended if he said derogatory things about other hockey players. Imagine if any player were to use racial slurs against players like Scott Gomez, Donald Brashear, Richard Park, etc... in the media. They'd definitely be suspended. In this case, Avery not only used a derogatory term towards women but used it against someone who really isn't even involved in the NHL.

I also think you're argument about losing personality from players isn't really valid. The NHL isn't asking players to lose any kind of personality, but rather the players need to be held to a higher standard since they are public figures and represent the league. They should be smart enough to not make derogatory remarks in public. They can voice opinions (Brett Hull) but they shouldn't be stupid about it (Sean Avery).

Actually, I'm glad Avery is suspended. I never liked seeing him play anyway. And to me that's a good enough reason to suspend him. Forget what he said.

Pension Plan Puppets said...

You can't punish people for talking. Maybe you can in Canada, but not in the US.

Employers can punish employees for what they say on both sides of the border.

Sarah said...

I agree Wooster. I'd have prefered if the team did it and the league didn't, but either way he really did cross the line.

If he said it on the ice, I have no problem whatsoever. Worse things are said, and it is part of competitive sports. But when you insult someone in such a crass and disrespectful manner IN THE MEDIA, as purposely as he did, that's when it becomes an issue.

Not a single one of the 29 students in my class says they know anything about hockey, but I brought this up this morning (it's a communication class, thus relevant) and half of the class had heard. I'd rather them have heard how the Sharks matched a league record for most points this early in a season.

Johan said...

Whilst Avery is a pain in the ass most of the time, it seems that apart from a few isolated incidents, its his actions on the ice that are most childish (ie, the screening of Brodeur.) I actually like the MAN, not the hockey player: for once, someone stood up against the archaic, mildly bigoted stereotype of "soft Euros." As a Euro myself, this comment was worth its weight in gold. Anyhow, what's so awful about some banter?

Earl Sleek said...

It's one thing to talk trash and it's another thing to say derogatory things about other people who aren't really involved in hockey at all.

Perhaps, but I haven't seen the guidelines for this until yesterday, really. When will all the beat writers get their punishment for talking about Elisha Cuthbert prior to yesterday?

If it's truly taboo, we probably need to stop seeing player-girlfriend coverage in hockey publications, and it probably needs to start immediately.

As far as I can tell, though, Avery commented on a news item that's gotten plenty of press -- let's not pretend he dragged some unsuspecting wife into this -- the story was already there, and discussed. I guess Avery's the only one who's not allowed to comment on it.

I never liked seeing him play anyway. And to me that's a good enough reason to suspend him. Forget what he said.

And this line of thinking I expect to carry the day. There's enough disdain for Avery the puke to not care exactly why he got suspended. But I hate it. I'd rather the NHL punished actions instead of personalities or imagined repercussions. If it's likeability that's going to decide tough issues like this, I think that's horrible.

Employers can punish employees for what they say on both sides of the border.

I would have been much happier about this had the Stars suspended Avery internally -- that seems much more within their rights and their perogative.

Sarah said...

Oh, and about losing personality in an already dry league, I don't really buy that either. Most players know the line between true personality and just being an insulting prick, and this won't change that.

And if someone thinks that being an insulting prick is "personality," than that is something that just doesn't belong in the NHL anyway. Take that shit to the WWE and be the hero of mouth breathers everywhere and leave the NHL to the adults.

Black Dog said...

Rudy - humour is over most hockey players' heads, you know that.

I generally lead with retard or fucking cock but if I really want to get their attention I dispense with the niceties and give them a whack.

They always seem to understand that.

As for Avery he got suspended for two reasons - it was so obviously rehearsed and the fact that he used the term 'sloppy seconds'

He's going to get traded, if they can find any takers (Tampa?). The guy has worn out his welcome with his teammates already and that is the end of that.

Earl Sleek said...

Most players know the line between true personality and just being an insulting prick, and this won't change that.

Really, you don't think that line wasn't really defined with a ton more clarity within the last 48 hours? I'll say that I was surprised, and if I were a player (even a "likeable" guy like Roenick or somebody) I'd shy away from anything near controversial.

The guy has worn out his welcome with his teammates already and that is the end of that.

Yeah, and I have no issue there. Locker room issues should be handled by the team, though.

Black Dog said...

Sarah's right too, by the way.

That's not personality and this isn't wrestling.

When I watch a hockey game I prefer to see "boring" Jerome Iginla to that little twat Avery.

Black Dog said...

Earl - yes on the locker room issue comment and also on the fact that the Stars may just be paying lip service after the fact although my impression is they are pretty upset

I also think that the NHL was trying to head off an on ice incident although unless Avery is banned for life at some point I presume he will play the Flames, Kings or Habs.

Earl Sleek said...

That's not personality and this isn't wrestling.

Hey, Avery's not my cup of tea either, but let's not pretend that he doesn't get a huge following, even if it's a following of haters.

There's a reason why reporters write a lot about Avery, and that's probably not going away even if they gag Avery and throw away the key.

But you're right -- personally, I'm much more a fan of the silent boring types. Give me my quoteless Pahlsson any day of the week.

westcoast ray said...

Lost in all this is it's Steve Larmer night at the United Center.

RudyKelly said...

Employers can punish employees for what they say on both sides of the border.

And if Sean Avery had been punished by his employer, I'd have no problem with that. The NHL is just a coalition of teams created to streamline operations; they're not there to play morality police. It's none of their business and I wish they'd stay out of it. Avery would have been punished by his team and his teammates and opposing teams. This shit'll police itself, it doesn't need the NHL to do it.

Give me my quoteless Pahlsson any day of the week.

Can Pahlsson talk? Does he even have a tongue?

Earl Sleek said...

Lost in all this is it's Steve Larmer night at the United Center.

I only really know Steve Larmer as a digital rendering in NHL 94, but my college buddy scored enough goals against me in that game that I think I dislike Larmer.

:)

westcoast ray said...

Lucky Larms 28 is my favorite. I only wish I was attending the game to grab a collectors pin. Unfortunately...er more likely fortunately I relocated to Cali years ago. Got out just about the time the Blackhawks became the Slackhawks.

Sarah said...

Hey, Avery's not my cup of tea either, but let's not pretend that he doesn't get a huge following, even if it's a following of haters.

Hitler had a large following, too. =)

I actually had something productive and well thought out to say, but this is this Internet and the BOC, and I've been serious enough, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

Earl Sleek said...

Hitler had a large following, too. =)

Right, but I think my point was whether you think he is displaying "personality" or not, it's still a big draw. I think the NHL media needs to take a look at its role in "creating" Sean Avery -- reporters are certainly playing high-and-mighty today, but they've played a huge role in yesterday's events. Avery, to me, has just been playing the part he was assigned, and for some unknown reason today it's more shocking than ever before.

Can Pahlsson talk? Does he even have a tongue?

I honestly don't know.

brokeyard said...

Sure he can, didn't you guys see the special footage of the Ducks going to a shooting range and having a "shootout" contest? Corey Perry beat Chris Pronger in the finals, and Marchant, the host, interviewed Pahlsson about the victory. He said something about it being good that Perry won because, well, "...anybody but Pronger"

Earl Sleek said...

...didn't you guys see the special footage of the Ducks going to a shooting range and having a "shootout" contest?

To tell you the truth, I don't know if it's just a busy schedule or because I've stopped caring about any Hayward opinions, but I haven't seen an intermission piece in a long while. I've been skipping away or skipping ahead nearly every time.

So I'm sure I'm missing lots of Ducks shenanigans. Wish I could say I missed them more.

Morbo said...

FYI, http://ducks.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=395896

Ducks picked up a defensemen Logan Stephenson from Phoenix for Lindstrom. Looks like some depth for the CHOPS since the big club raided Festerling. No idea how Stephenson is, but judging from the numbers, he's got some potential. A former 2nd round pick.

Earl, that piece brokeyard is referring to was filmed for NHLTV, and it was shown on that "The Element" show on KDOC.

TO watch it, go to the ducks nhl site, under Multimedia, go to "Ducks TV presented by Time Warner". It'll open a new window, then click on "The Element" on the left hand side, and you'll see it listed. It's the "Shooting Range" episode

Morbo said...

Oh, and Ontario's sloppy seconds? Well played sir.

Didn't Pierre Page also become a scout for the Canadiens last year? It's not Ontario, but those sneaky canucks north of the border keep taking the Ducks table scraps eh?

Earl Sleek said...

A former 2nd round pick.

Yeah, I saw that news and shrugged. I think I'm getting back to that phase where I barely recognize anything that happens below the NHL level.

To watch it, go to the ducks nhl site...

OK, OK, I'll watch it later this evening if you guys tell me it's worth it.

Incidentally, the other joke I was going to throw around this whole Avery quote was that the Ducks should also watch their tendency towards "sloppy seconds". In the two games of this road trip thus far, they've been outshot a collective 38-8 in the second frame, and that needs to get fixed pretty darn soon before the league intervenes.

Julian said...

America has a very curious relationship with sex.

It's okay for an athlete to threaten to kill someone in the media, but god forbid they say something even remotely risque that, as many have pointed out, was already repeated hundreds of times in the media.

This suspension is, in my opinion, an even more ridiculous manifestation of the same.

An indefinite suspension for an off-ice comment in which no names were mentioned is a joke, particularly when compared to the often short suspensions handed out for egregious on-ice behavior.

Sarah said...

Right, but I think my point was whether you think he is displaying "personality" or not, it's still a big draw.

But a draw to what? To Avery. Not the game. Does anyone believe that people follow hockey now because Avery talks about fashion or masturbating or some other outrageous thing? Is any fan a bigger fan of hockey because of Avery?


I think the NHL media needs to take a look at its role in "creating" Sean Avery -- reporters are certainly playing high-and-mighty today, but they've played a huge role in yesterday's events. Avery, to me, has just been playing the part he was assigned, and for some unknown reason today it's more shocking than ever before.


Absolutely no argument from me here. In fact, you are 100% right. They are just as guilty. They created the Avery monster to begin with, and they've blown this up to "controversy" up beyond compare, too.

They've given us this guy like we wanted him. I know I didn't. Dallas fans sure didn't. As a fan, I actually enjoyed the Devin-Setoguchi-plays-badminton thing on NHL.com a million times more than Avery's latest outrageous statement. I could care less about him being an ass. This comment was embarrassing to the team, the league, Avery, Cuthbert, Phaneuf (not to mention Rachel Hunter and Jared Stoll), and frankly, I don't get off on other people being embarrassed. I just feel badly for all of them.

hockeychic said...

When I first heard the news that he has been suspended I was wondering what happened...I had to wait for "NHL On the Fly" to come around again. Then I heard it and I was a big surprised. It was disgusting, degrading and so obviously rehearsed. But...Todd Bertuzzi is still allowed to play in this leage and Avery gets suspended indefinitely for that? I'm confused. I think that the Stars should have been allowed to deal with it. I am thinking now that Bettman suspended him to prevent a brawl last night that would have given the NHL really bad press.

Well the NHL has really bad press anyway.

Avery is a tool, plain and simple and now we have a big media circus. I just wish everyone would ignore him and he would slink back under the rock he crawled out from under in the first place.

Thanks for the laugh, Earl.

spade-in-victorhell said...

i thought what avery said was funny..

I dont get though why everyone gets so excited when he does somthing...like when TO or ocho cinco...it lasts in my brain for 2 seconds

hey rudy you forgot "butt pirate" on your list

Mike in OC said...

I am thinking now that Bettman suspended him to prevent a brawl last night that would have given the NHL really bad press.

It's not like Avery would fight Dion. The only thing they did was avoid the awkward felling watching Avery dive all night. He would have dropped to the ground at the slightest contact from any Calgary player and wait for the medical trainer (this helps ensure a penalty is called against Calgary, and sometimes even increases the penalty time) then come out on the ensuing PPL and score.

The whole thing got way more pub after the suspension. I doubt I would have even known about the comment if there was no suspension.

They should have taken their chances with a brawl. Avery’s a pussy, he won’t fight. That leaves his teammates, and if his teammates really hate him, the non-action would have been the bigger statement.

Earl Sleek said...

I doubt I would have even known about the comment if there was no suspension.

Yeah, there's no doubt that the NHL put the words "sloppy seconds" in more headlines than Sean Avery could ever have done himself. Or, in the case of the OC Register, "(former girlfriend)".

Good work, silly league.

Steve said...

Yes, we have a league where we accept that it is ok to beat each other up, board each other, hit each other with sticks, etc. But those players are gentlemen off the ice. Avery is not. I think that is one of the things the NHL has going for it: A game for thugs, played by gentlemen.

Whilst I feel that some of the physical play gets over looked because it is considered to be a large element of the sport, lewd comments are not and should be treated as such!

The suspension will probably be a few games. They will call Avery in, slap him on the wrists, and then say what? Be nice? Done deal. The Stars wont waive him because then there wont be any stars left in Dallas!
And who wants to stomach that salary cap hit for a guy that has never scored more than 15 goals in a year in the big league?

brokeyard said...

Maybe the NHL is upset because Cuthbert is their one chance at a spotlight in the mainstream media.

As another blog put it, it would have been less controversial to stomp on someone with a skate.

Earl Sleek said...

OK, I'll admit it. That shooting range episode was pretty cool. Perry with the upset -- I'm cool with that. I wonder who knocked out Carlyle? :)

As another blog put it, it would have been less controversial to stomp on someone with a skate.

It's funny how these big controversies fall quickly to the wayside when there's a new villain in the limelight.

Wooster11 said...

I never liked seeing him play anyway. And to me that's a good enough reason to suspend him. Forget what he said.

And this line of thinking I expect to carry the day. There's enough disdain for Avery the puke to not care exactly why he got suspended. But I hate it. I'd rather the NHL punished actions instead of personalities or imagined repercussions. If it's likeability that's going to decide tough issues like this, I think that's horrible.


Seriously, that was a joke, at least a really lame attempt at one.

As for those who say they wouldn't mind seeing the Stars suspend Avery because he's their employee, Avery is actually also an employee of the NHL. Think about it like a big corporate office. The NHL is the parent company of all the teams so therefore Avery is an employee of the NHL.

Anyway, Tom Hicks said he would have suspended Avery anyway if the NHL didn't step in to do it.

I wouldn't have minded if Avery said things that tried to up the excitement for the game and talk about other players, but again he used a deragatory remark which is a no-no in the media.

When will all the beat writers get their punishment for talking about Elisha Cuthbert prior to yesterday?

The thing is that the media was simply quoting Avery which is perfectly legitimate. Should they have probably censored themselves? Maybe, but I'm not a big fan of censorship - otherwise how could I possibly even read this blog?

I just read a great post on NHL Fanhouse http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2008/12/03/stars-management-plotting-avery-endgame/#cont. Talks about a really similar situation with John Rocker. The league and teams can't tolerate statements from their athletes which again are held to a higher standard since they are public figures. Is that fair? Not really, but that's the way it is. Professional athletes are role models no matter if they like it or not. They shouldn't have gone into that profession if that wasn't something they wanted. Or they could just act like Pahlsson and just say about 50 words a season.

eyebleaf said...

Bravo Earl.

Earl Sleek said...

A pretty well-played apology by Avery. A fair show of sincerity, I think.

Let's give him back his allowance.

brokeyard said...

Meh. Planned statements are so boring.

Joe said...

Meh. Planned statements are so boring.

If that were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place, would we?

:P

Joe said...

Real good piece by Damien Cox on ESPN's NHL page. Pretty much nails my biggest problem with the Avery suspension, and similar things happening in the NFL. Stop trying to police the free speech and freedom of action of your employees.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=cox_damien&id=3741997

Sports leagues should be more concerned with their product on the ice, not who says what or has what political opinion or whatever completely unrelated bullshit they want to get their panties in a bunch over.

Forklift said...

Avery is a douche, and he always does douchey things. No reason to get upset over that.

Kris VERSTEEG is certainly making a compelling case for keeping the Calder Trophy in Chicago.

spade-in-victorhell said...

earl the ducks gonna do anything to fix this offense or we just gonna hope teemu scores on the power play everytime..

and why was ryan on the bench?

your telling me marchant and morrison have better chances to score...

at least ryan can use his skill and size to make things happen

im starting to sour on RC really quick here...starting to think him and his coaching staff might be whats holding the ducks back..
]
thoughts?

p.s.
how do u fucken lose like that last nite

Earl Sleek said...

earl the ducks gonna do anything to fix this offense or we just gonna hope teemu scores on the power play everytime..

Sure they'll fix it. Next summer.

I'll have to defer on last night's game. I did watch it, but not very carefully. Still, it seemed like there was some very good stretches where Huet seemed the difference.

and why was ryan on the bench?you're telling me marchant and morrison have better chances to score...at least ryan can use his skill and size to make things happen

I don't know there, but he was on the ice for both goals-against in Detroit. Probably it had to do with that. Generally you're right, though -- there's enough upside for Ryan that he shouldn't be stapled to the bench for more grinders.

Morrison is starting to irk me a bit. I understand he's still getting his feel, but simple things like catching or making a pass seem way difficult for him lately. I'll pay closer attention next game.

im starting to sour on RC really quick here...starting to think him and his coaching staff might be whats holding the ducks back..thoughts?

RC is old-school and wants more goal prevention than goal creation, but that's not new. Yeah, he probably is holding the offense back a bit but at least for a purpose, and in good stretches last night it worked out fabulously, just not at the end of the game.

p.s.
how do u fucken lose like that last nite


It happens. I'm not too worried yet; a lot of teams have been getting slaughtered in Chicago this year, and that team is definitely perpetually dangerous.

It should have gone better, but I'm staying optimistic. At least we don't have Avery issues.

spade-in-victorhell said...

morrison is worthless dude..ive been watching him closley...he loses every battle for any puck..

marchant has the same speed...but can win pucks, faceoffs, play defense, ok and not score...might as well use him instead of morrison if your gonna just waste a center spot.

morrison has zero value....

p.s.

remember the stanley cup year? when we went into every game epxecting to win....expecting to score every game....now I wonder..are we gonna get lucky today..?

ok POSITIVE RIGHT?
getz and perry looked dominate on there cycle...hiller looking good!!

Mike in OC said...

morrison has zero value....

yup. and his value is going down game after game. At least it's a one year deal.

I think the bigger concern is the staff's ability to find replacment players for this team when a spot opens up. Weight, Bertuzzi, and now Morrison, you could call all of them busts. What the hell is going to happen next summer when there is potential for a huge turnover? We can endup with 3 or 4 Morrison or Weight type players.

I'm just sayin...

Morbo said...

I don't know there, but he was on the ice for both goals-against in Detroit. Probably it had to do with that. Generally you're right, though -- there's enough upside for Ryan that he shouldn't be stapled to the bench for more grinders.

And so were Getz and Perry, and Nieds. I don't see how Ryan is the one to blame when Getz and Perry have been dogging it on defense all year long.

Once again, RC baffles me. Benching Ryan, while giving Morrison and Marchant big minutes. Meanwhile, Teemu is a -6 and can't do anything even strength because he's carrying a couple of stiffs on the 2nd line. Ugh.

I was at work, so I had the stream in the background. It was the chicago feed, and in the pregame, there were actually laughing about how RC is known for his obsessive compulsive line matching, and that the Hawks should take advantage of it.

Earl Sleek said...

I don't see how Ryan is the one to blame when Getz and Perry have been dogging it on defense all year long.

Generally, you are correct, but Lidstrom's goal did go in off of Bobby Ryan's glove. That may have been an issue for RC.

It was the chicago feed, and in the pregame, there were actually laughing about how RC is known for his obsessive compulsive line matching, and that the Hawks should take advantage of it.

I'm not as upset about this as some might be. Yeah, sometimes it's frustrating to watch, but it is generally the cup formula. Some lines need to play better, but I'm not sure that the strategy or the obsession is truly to blame.

Let me catch another game, though, before I get too foot-in-mouth on this.

Earl Sleek said...

Meanwhile, Teemu is a -6 and can't do anything even strength because he's carrying a couple of stiffs on the 2nd line. Ugh.

Oh, and on this point I think a lot of us have given Teemu an awfully free pass at even strength this season, and why not? If he scores all our PP goals that is definitely a huge contribution.

Still, he has but one even-strength goal this year, and as much as we can blame the two guys he's playing with, I think Teemu needs to start fighting through more checks also. He did generate some chances in the CHI game, but I'd like to see him carry the line even more. A lot of times there's three bad players on his line, not just two.

spade-in-victorhell said...

We can endup with 3 or 4 Morrison or Weight type players.

aaaaahhhhhhh don't even say mike that...thats like acid on my crotch

i think we need some kind of shakeup...either fire the coach or trade a player no ones expecting...somthing...we might win a game or two and even squeak into the playoffs playing the way we are now...but its not gonna get us very far..imo...i hope im wrong


p.s.
earl watch closely next time...tell me how many times u scratch your head at a rc move or how many times you yell at an anheim player that gets outhustled
better yet grab a bottle of JD and a shot glass and take a shot everytime one of the things i mentioned happens..let me know if you make it thru the whole game haha

spade-in-victorhell said...

We can endup with 3 or 4 Morrison or Weight type players.

aaaaahhhhhhh don't even say mike that...thats like acid on my crotch

i think we need some kind of shakeup...either fire the coach or trade a player no ones expecting...somthing...we might win a game or two and even squeak into the playoffs playing the way we are now...but its not gonna get us very far..imo...i hope im wrong


p.s.
earl watch closely next time...tell me how many times u scratch your head at a rc move or how many times you yell at an anheim player that gets outhustled
better yet grab a bottle of JD and a shot glass and take a shot everytime one of the things i mentioned happens..let me know if you make it thru the whole game haha

Earl Sleek said...

i think we need some kind of shakeup...either fire the coach or trade a player no ones expecting...somthing...we might win a game or two and even squeak into the playoffs playing the way we are now...but its not gonna get us very far..imo...i hope im wrong

I'm dead-set against firing Carlyle right now, even for any artificial gains. For one, he's the cup-winner, and you do have to give some nod that way. Secondly, he just signed a two year extension this year, so to fire him before that even starts seems way rash.

I do hear your concerns, though, Spade, and believe me -- they are valid. The Ducks are playing well enough to be top-eight but not well enough to win multiple rounds in the playoffs -- and I agree with that wholeheartedly.

Still, I'm not panicky yet. Remember, there's still been a lot of roster shuffling, particularly on the blueline, and really, it doesn't matter very much how much ass you kick in December. For now, the fact that the Ducks are holding their heads above water is good enough for me. Come February, yes, I will expect to see something better or probably action will need to be taken, but for now, it's a calm sense of positivity.

It's always been my philosophy, really. All you have to do is play well enough to make the top eight, and then kick some ass once you get there. Home ice is nice, but we've seen plenty of times that it barely means squat.

Bright sides, guys. Even though GP is a bit scattered, there are only two western teams with more standings points than the Ducks. For December 4, that's plenty good news enough for me.

spade-in-victorhell said...

i do want you do that JD experiment though...just for the amusement of hearing how drunk you got

Earl Sleek said...

Damn, I must say, I do like the follow-up comments by Brett Hull. One thing that he understands -- the more teammates bag on Avery's reputation in the lockerroom, the harder it becomes for the Stars to part ways with him. And the contract is high and long enough that it's near impossible to move in the first place.

Still, Hull's right. The problem with the Dallas Stars this year goes deeper than Avery; players need to shoulder more of that blame.