Takes and trash talk from both ALL sides of the NHL's most obscure PATHETIC* rivalry

* Thanks, Kevin Lowe!

Tuesday, May 15, 2007

Drinky Post—wherein I swear a lot tonight and regret a lot tomorrow


stolen from Bizarro


FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

Easily the worst game I have attended at the Pond / Honda Center in my lifetime, though I will note that I was pretty assured of the outcome by the end of the 1st period (Det 2, Ana 0). I was pretty sure it would unravel after that. Case in point—me and a guy from the 3rd deck were the two guys outside having a cigarette when that 5-minute major got called in the 2nd.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

I’m not so much upset at the final score; as I said, it was decided early. But I am really upset at the Ducks for not putting their bodies in Hasek’s crease for the last 30 minutes, when the game was out of reach. I’ll tell you what fans in my section were hearing: “If you’re not running Hasek, you’re not trying!”

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

I’m pretty glad, actually, that it was a 5-0 final. Had we lost 2-1, maybe there would have been no urgency for a G4 adjustment.

There’s probably a benefit to me being at the game as opposed to watching it on TV. Because of latecomers and my own spotty attendance, I only got to see the 2nd and 4th goals.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

I’ll tell you what was the biggest realization of the night: I might not really hate the Red Wings as much as I hate the fucking Red Wing fans. You want to know why “Hockeytown” is being harassed for its attendance (pricing) issues? Look no further than your asshole fans, who’ve been citing attendance numbers to discredit our franchise for years!

In all seriousness, you might be the best, most polite, quaintest Red Wing fan in the universe, but know this. You come from easily the worst fanbase in the western conference, from a tolerability standpoint. I won’t go into specifics about tonight, but know that at the end of the game I shook a guy’s hand for being a Wings fan and not an asshole.

And I had to go two sections over to find him.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

Well, in the end it is only one game. Sure it’s a message-sender, but there’s still room to respond. Ducks have got to get their shit together, that’s for sure.

But FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

48 comments:

Paul said...

"You come from easily the worst fanbase in the western conference"

Everybody hates the team on top (and their fans). Nice and transparent.

Detroit hockey fans are some of the most knowledgeable in the league. Sure, we have our share of dopes - but our share is smaller than your share.

Subic Bay Ray said...

You come from easily the worst fanbase in the western conference, from a tolerability standpoint.

You sound like that tw_t (turn the vowel, Vanna) from Raleigh.

You know something Wings fans don’t do? They don’t cheer when an opposing player is lying on the ice leaking blood, ala Holmstrom last night. Nice. When did the Ducks start importing fans from Philadelphia?

Oh well, at least Maltby got a little revenge by carving up Getzlaf’s face with that high stick near the end. Oops.

Earl Sleek said...

Yes, the "you only hate us because we're the best fans alive" notion is pretty charming also.

Luc T. said...

Subic Bay Ray brings a very good point that I would have brought if he didn't do it first. The guy Holmstrom lays on the ice bleeding from the forehead and all I could hear was loud roars of satsifaction from the crowd. I guess those thousands of fans are less annoying than the few wearing Wings jersey that celebrated after each punishing goals your world-famous D was giving yesterday.

Subic Bay Ray said...

Subic Bay Ray brings a very good point that I would have brought if he didn't do it first.

I'm well-known for my on-target observations. Just ask Ian and Toby and Can'tStopTheGrier up in NoCal.

Anyway, final score:
Wings-5
Ducks-Gah.

I’m dying to hear from Anadelphia fans how the Ducks should have won this one.

Earl Sleek said...

A few things:

a) I was really hammered last night. I was on two freeways on my way home that weren't really on my way home, if you catch my meaning. So this post should be taken with a grain of alcoholic salt.

b) But I genuinely was really pissed at the Detroit fans in my section, who were not really good-spirited in their bullying. It's tough, sometimes, because generally I don't mind cheering for the visiting team, or making signs, or taunting or whatnot, but these guys had no respect for us as Duck fans. They seemed genuinely interested in picking fights and making sure we weren't going to enjoy their company. And maybe it's just that arrogance that really gets to me.

Listen, I know I'm talking about one or two assholes from last night, and it was wrong of me to characterize the entire Detroit fanbase as such (drinky drinky). But it does seem to me that I encounter that sort of attitude more from Detroit fans than most--why is that?

I would genuinely like it if someday the Anaheim franchise could be as successful on the ice as Detroit has been, but it would be a tragedy if our fans developed this sort of arrogant disdain for other teams' fans as a result.

c) I'm probably the only one who didn't see either the Holmstrom hit or the crowd reaction, so I can't offer much there. I don't condone cheering injury necessarily (not that I'm guiltless), but I was out having a smoke.

We can call the Anaheim fans immature or ignorant or desperate for something to cheer for, but that is a different thing disrespecting Detroit fans--which I guess was my take-away theme for last night.

andrew said...

Don't apologize for the post Earl. Aside from a few notable exceptions, Wings fans are a bunch of mouthbreathers. They're like Yankee fans. ugh.

Anonymous said...

I would genuinely like it if someday the Anaheim franchise could be as successful on the ice as Detroit has been, but it would be a tragedy if our fans developed this sort of arrogant disdain for other teams' fans as a result.

Don't worry--they will. It's inevitable to attract more donkey butts as the team improves. Happens in every sport in the world. Think of it as a sign of excellence!

Subic Bay Ray said...

But I genuinely was really pissed at the Detroit fans in my section, who were not really good-spirited in their bullying. It's tough, sometimes, because generally I don't mind cheering for the visiting team, or making signs, or taunting or whatnot, but these guys had no respect for us as Duck fans. They seemed genuinely interested in picking fights and making sure we weren't going to enjoy their company.

That’s just not right. I mean it’s one thing to root for your team, but to stoop to mean-spiritedness and classless stereotypical name-calling (probably) goes beyond the pale.

I hear that sort of stuff sometimes happens in comments sections of Wings fan blogs, too.

'Tis a shame, really.

can'tstopthegrier said...

WAIT! I thought us Sharks-fans were the worst, most ignorant fans in the league? Damn it....make up your mind Detroit!

Even though I'm rooting hard against the Ducks - you pompous ass Puckheads are making it tough. I guess Motown has no class after all.

Earl Sleek said...

I guess Motown has no class after all.

This isn't right, nor is my statement in the post itself. I know a few Red Wings fans that are no different from you or I--we root for different teams but in the end we are both hockey fans in a football/basketball/baseball world. The Detroit fanbase does have its quality members for sure.

But when we look at the other end of the spectrum, well, I'll say that any team's fanbase has its share of idiots and morons, so a case could be made against any franchise. But for some reason, Detroit's bunch are more widespread, more vocal, and more arrogant than most.

Even the commenters here (who I've got no beef with) have noted that this is not the first such complaint. If it's becoming a common theme, is it a legitimate beef? And is there a reason behind it, other than "excellence breeds assholes"?

I dunno, it's a touchy and delicate subject (probably not one I should have touched while staggeringly drunk), but I think it is something to be at least aware of. Fairly or unfairly, there is a strong sense of anti-Detroit, and a lot of it comes from interaction with Red Wing fans.

I don't really know what to tell the rest of you Detroit fans--I don't think it's something I expect an apology for as it's certainly not coming from most of you, but it does seem to exist and you may want to be a little extra gracious to compensate.

Poking fun is cool, and calling Pronger a thug is fine, and taunting Giguere is perfectly acceptable too. Just try to leave me the Anaheim fan out of it.

RudyKelly said...

I went to a playoff game (the Kings in the playoffs?) in 2001 against Detroit, and there were probably 300 annoying Red Wings fans there talking about how LA sucked and we couldn't be true fans because we don't have ice. The Kings won and after the game I saw 2 Wings fans running at full speed, being chased by a legion of Kings fans. It was awesome.

Am I the only one who thought the Niedermayer/Pronger hit wasn't that bad? Pronger got his arm up along Holmstrom's head, but it wasn't boarding and it definitely wasn't Niedermayer's fault. I thought it deserved a two-minute penalty on Pronger for roughing, but that was about it. I don't care too much, but it struck me as an overreaction by the refs.

Also, I don't get to say this very often so I'm going to say it now: Scott Niedermayer was terrible last night.

Dear Lord Stanley said...

You know something Wings fans don’t do? They don’t cheer when an opposing player is lying on the ice leaking blood, ala Holmstrom last night. Nice.

Detroit, March 26, 1997. Darren McCarty sucker-punches Claude Lemieux (who, I admit, probably deserved it) and then proceeds to pummel him on the ice, ultimately kneeing him in the head before the refs finally separate them.

Joe Louis Arena goes wild.

And that's just the worst example---there are many, many more over the years.

Subic Bay Ray said...

WAIT! I thought us Sharks-fans were the worst, most ignorant fans in the league?

Not Sharks fans (plural), Sharks fan (singular) -- as in just you.

(gramps) HockeyTownTodd said...

The unsold playoff tickets were the ones set aside so Ducks fans could attend the game. They didn't come, or maybe there are none.

Subic Bay Ray said...

Joe Louis Arena goes wild.

What team’s fans don’t “go wild” when one of their own scores a TKO during a post-whistle melee, especially when it’s rightful retribution for a cheap-shot on a teammate, as was the case in McCarty going after Lemieux? Maybe Claudia should’ve defended himself so that the fans had not so much to “go wild” about, eh?

And most NHL fans are well aware of the difference between such a situation and cheering when an opponent is injured while the puck is in play. But you being a Dives fan, I’m not surprised the difference has to be explained to you.

I happened to be at the game at JLA in ’98 when Pronger took that puck to his chest, momentarily stopping his heart. You could hear a pin drop -- until the applause came as he was being taken off the ice on a stretcher, that is.

There’s your difference right there, Mile High Stanley.

Earl Sleek said...

Not Sharks fans (plural), Sharks fan (singular) -- as in just you.

...so Ducks fans could attend the game. They didn't come, or maybe there are none.

But you being a Dives fan, I’m not surprised the difference has to be explained to you.

See? This stuff is all getting towards what I'm talking about. Insulting can be cool among friends, but in this case I dunno, it reeks of condescension.

Yeah, you don't have to like the Sharks, Ducks, or Avs, but taking it to the fanbase?

Isn't there a commonality among all of us hockey fans in the U.S.? Don't we all have the right to root on our own squads without us necessarily being labeled as "idiots"? Why does that get so lost in Motown?

Can'tStoptheGrier said...

I agree Earl. Even though I took a shot, I guess four weeks of ethnic and homophobic slurs from Wings fans on my blog and other blogs got the best of me.

For some reason, Motown fans appear to have a sense of entitlement as the "elder statesmen" or "royalty of hockey". I'm with you and will follow suit. Let's leave it on the ice. Call Hasek and Selanne names and leave each other out of it (I have a few good ones for Selanne, that douchebag...)

Amen Earl.

Subic Bay Ray said...

No offense, Earl, but I’d seriously be concerned for your emotional well-being if you were a Detroit fan at JLA when the Toronto contingent got off the train to take in a Wings-Leafs game.

Earl Sleek said...

Fair enough. We don't see enough Toronto in our neck of the woods for me to assess what they're bringing. I do want to reiterate, there are fans of all 30 teams that are jackholes, it's not purely a Detroit phenomenon.

But yeah, I've pretty much stopped commenting at A2Y and other Detroit blogs--nothing against what they are doing, I love the Captain's stuff--but I can only take so much "If you were a real fan..." in the comments before I just leave.

I'd love to talk hockey without the disrespect--the blogs managed just fine against Calgary, Colorado, Edmonton last year, and Minnesota and Vancouver this year, but it just seems so hard to do with the Wings.

There's so much talk about a lack of class or respect on the ice (see Pronger, Chris); it's a shame it has to happen off the ice as well.

Subic Bay Ray said...

I guess four weeks of ethnic and homophobic slurs from Wings fans on my blog and other blogs got the best of me.

Wow, us nasty-whasty Whed Whing fans even possess the ability to prolong time, turning two weeks into four.

Good thing the series wasn’t “too emotional” for you like a Ducks-Sharks series would’ve been, eh?

Subic Bay Ray said...

But yeah, I've pretty much stopped commenting at A2Y…

You too? Heh…

If you really want to put a bee in The Chief’s bonnet, call him “The Ensign,” not “The Captain.”

As for last night's game itself, I have no problem with R. Niedermayer’s hit. His elbows and stick were down and he was coming from an angle slightly in front so that Holmstrom should have seen the hit coming, even though, apparently, he did not.

It was Pronger’s forearm shiver from behind driving Holmstrom’s head into the glass that should’ve gotten the gap-toothed dufus the rest of the night off. And unlike most Wings fans, I don’t want Pronger suspended. Should the Wings move on to face Ottawa in the SCFs, I don’t want any excuses coming out of SoCal.

Sherry said...

...you weren't actually driving home drunk were you? Do I have to get all PSA on you?

Earl Sleek said...

Yes, I was, and yes, you might have to.

Earl Sleek said...

Should the Wings move on to face Ottawa in the SCFs, I don’t want any excuses coming out of SoCal.

I'm not sure where we're earning this reputation (MSM?), but there's been a lot of griping coming from Detroit's end also.

G1: Officiating sucks.
G2: Video review sucks.
G3: Pronger sucks.

Whatever the decision on the suspension, I suspect we'll hear more grief from Detroit's faithful again.

BTW, Matt at BoA has a fantastic post today about sports suspensions and the factors that should govern their length.

Doogie said...

At game speed, I see why they tossed Rnied over Pronger: basically, Rneid made the louder thump. That being said, if you look at it in slo-mo, Rneid's half of the hit is actually fairly clean, if potentially devastating nonetheless. I think if the refs had based their call off a replay, Pronger would've gotten the boot instead, because he's the one that went for the head from behind.

The optimal thing for Campbell to do would be to overturn Rneid's ejection (so it's not on his permanent record), and give Pronger one or two games for being a dick. I know it hampers the Ducks, but it's not like the Suns losing Stoudemeier for no good reason.

mc keeper said...

TSN is reporting Pronger is suspended for game #4 - let the opinions/comments begin to fly....

Subic Bay Ray said...

You’re getting defensive, Earl.

I never said Ducks fans have been whining in this series. I simply stated that I don’t want Pronger suspended in order to preclude any excuses coming from Anaheim should the Wings advance, as you know there would be (just as there will be Wings fans bemoaning the unavailability of Schneider and Kronwall this series should the Ducks move on).

That’s all it was – a preemptive sort of thing which in no way has any connection or makes any reference to anything else.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.

Earl Sleek said...

TSN is reporting Pronger is suspended for game #4 - let the opinions/comments begin to fly....

OK, I think that's pretty much what the consensus was (not what he deserves, but what he'd likely get).

I dunno, not the worst thing, really. It might help Anaheim simplify their game (which was needed anyway). Honestly, whether Pronger dressed for G4 wasn't the most pressing issue for me--the way the team is playing matters a lot more than personnel.

That said, I'm pretty relieved it wasn't more. Playing the Wings in Anaheim without Pronger (G4)--somewhat doable. Playing the Wings in Detroit without Pronger (G5) would have been a nightmare.

IwoCPO said...

For the record...of the three categories we're accused of whining about, only the pronger sucks part applies to what I believe. And that's not even accurate. I don't think he sucks, I just think he's an asshole.

And "Ray"? Captain, Ensign...all the same to me.

ColBerdan said...

This whole conversation about which team has the least tolerable fan base is just ridiculous. Most of us have probably seriously interacted with only a dozen or so fans of other teams, and that's way to few to be making quality character judgments about thousands of people. With such a small sample all it takes is a couple morons (which you're going to get on internet blogs, no matter what you're talking about) and suddenly it looks like most people who are on the "other side" are complete douche bags. Seriously CantStopTheGrier, were these racist, homophobic remarks coming from hundreds of posters or a few jackasses that keep coming back?

The Pronger hit was flat out dirty. Niedermayer's hit was hard but clean and he got stuck with the penalty minutes that should have been Pronger's (I don't know what Rob did to piss off the hockey gods, but it must have been a doozey. He had a miserable night). One game seems fair, but it wouldn't have been the crime of the century if he was just fined or something.

Subic Bay Ray said...

At least you still have your third star of last night’s game, Todd Marchant, as selected by Anaheim media.

Hasek pitches a 29-shot shut-out, including some spectacular saves early, a break-away and an uncontested point-blanker later on, yet loses out on a star to Marchant’s zero shots, two hits, two give-aways and a minus-1.

Not that this is any big deal, mind you. In fact, it's no deal at all. But it might help explain why Wings fans can’t take Anaheim seriously as a hot-bed of hockey.

Earl Sleek said...

Captain, no worries. I hope it didn't sound like I was putting words in your mouth. Just generally what I'd seen in comments.

And Colberdan, you are right about limited contact with fanbases. But still, I'm not the first or probably the last to say Red Wing nation pissed me off--there's more than just my experience out there.

SBR, you're starting to get a little ridiculous. Anaheim is one of 30 cities that picks 3 stars with the home crowd in mind, and I don't know what Marchant's selection has to do with me. I haven't debated a 3-star selection in years, because really, what's the point? It hasn't been a bastion of justice ever, and I'd rather have the star-worthy performance than the honor anyway.

It's kind of like the Selke trophy this year. Awards are nice and all, but I'd rather have Pahlsson on my team whether he wins the thing or not. I know his value on the ice, and it doesn't really matter to me whether he gets recognized by the east coasters or not.

Subic Bay Ray said...

TSN is reporting Pronger is suspended for game #4

This is an outrage. The Ducks should've argued on his behalf more vehemently.

I think his wife should demand a trade.

Subic Bay Ray said...

SBR, you're starting to get a little ridiculous. Anaheim is one of 30 cities that picks 3 stars with the home crowd in mind, and I don't know what Marchant's selection has to do with me. I haven't debated a 3-star selection in years, because really, what's the point? It hasn't been a bastion of justice ever, and I'd rather have the star-worthy performance than the honor anyway.

I guess you missed this part of my post:

Not that this is any big deal, mind you. In fact, it's no deal at all. But it might help explain why Wings fans can’t take Anaheim seriously as a hot-bed of hockey.

Just trying to offer a small tidbit of information to your complaint about why us Wings fans may have an arrogance or condescending nature when it comes to hockey in SoCal.

Earl Sleek said...

Yeah, but again, what's that got to do with me? Am I less of a fan because of my team's three stars selection process (one I would hardly classify as 'unique')? Who exactly has been celebrating this Marchant achievement?

Honestly, I didn't even know about it until you brought it up.

Ian said...

The "X city's fans are bozos, Y's city's fans are passionate" trope is just a variation on the "X team's player is a thug, Y team's player is a gritty playoff performer" line of reasoning.

In both situations, wearing the same jersey is an amazing deodorant.

Paul said...

"Earl Sleek said...

Yes, the "you only hate us because we're the best fans alive" notion is pretty charming also. "

Um, Earl? I didn't say that. Man, what is your deal? You seem to have a lot of trouble understanding what people write/say.

"But it does seem to me that I encounter that sort of attitude more from Detroit fans than most--why is that? "

Because you don't live in Detroit so you're bumping into more newbie fans who don't have the respect or knowledge of the game that long-time Detroiters have.

Detroit fans are simply more knowledgeable because we have had a team longer and it's a part of the city's culture. It has nothing to do with the fans being smarter, or better people...it's just experience.

Subic Bay Ray said...

Never mind, Earl. I thought it was you who made the comment about arrogant Wings fans and their condescending nature. Just trying to provide you some insight into what may be a small piece of that puzzle.

Go ahead and delete my comments. I’m used to it. Heh…

Earl Sleek said...

Paul, I did twist your words a bit, but I was talking about more than your specific comment (which also wasn't that charming). Easy there, man. Do you ever have regular conversations with people without it turning into legalistic competition?

SBR, so long as you're not trying to make money in the comments, I'll probably allow it. Then again, the Chief vowed never to delete comments either, so we'll see.

And generally, if you want to throw out my complaint because I come from a newbie fanbase, that's fine. But I'm not the first or last to make this sort of complaint, so you may have to deal with it at some point.

I've been running this blog for a year now and dealt with a lot of fans from a lot of franchises. For the most part, I would say that most of us understand our commonalities as hockey fans more than our differences as fans of different teams. There's a mutual understanding and a mutual respect.

For whatever reason, I don't get a lot of that from Detroit. Yeah, it can be angering, but mostly, I think it's a shame.

TeamDub said...

Hmm...

Do I know you, subic bay ray?

From happier, pre-mass-deletion days?

Anonymous said...

This whole "my fanbase is smarter/better/more devoted/more dedicated than yours" has got to be one of the most stupid discussions I've ever heard...and I spent a couple of years teaching college freshmen, so I should know a little something about stupid. For the love of (insert favorite supernatural or imaginary being here), even within fan bases of THE SAME FREAKING TEAM people can't decide whether a "true fan" demands better from an incompetent front office or follows along sheep-like with unquestioning obedience to the holy logo of the one true team.

Unwritten rules are no rules at all. The only "true fan" is the person who gains enjoyment from the game, as opposed to the person who wanders by, takes a look at the television, and says "this is stupid. Why do you even watch this? You don't know any of these people. Why do you care about a stupid game?"

If you care, you are a fan. That's it. Beyond that, there are as many ways of being a fan as there are fans.

(And most fans of every team come off as jerks, because most people are jerks at heart once they get drunk, loud, angry, start screaming profanity, puking, and groping young women in the revolving doors. One reason why I prefer to watch on television and wouldn't go to a game in person if you gave me tickets for free. Too many bad experiences with noisy crowds.)

beingbobbyorr said...

Yes, I was, and yes, you might have to.

Earl -- When you leave the Ponda to go back to the south bay, do you drive on the 22 west then 405 north? Or do you go on the 91 west?

Earl Sleek said...

I take the 22 / 405. It's not always the best decision (sometimes they close the 22 down to one or two lanes at night for no real obvious reason), but it gets me home.

I haven't done the 91 in a while. It's just about as fast, but I live south of there (PCH and Torrance, roughly), and that's too much city street for me.

Subic Bay Ray said...

Do I know you, subic bay ray?

Nein kennen Sie mich vom Haus des Fuhrer nicht.

For whatever reason, I don't get a lot of that from Detroit. Yeah, it can be angering, but mostly, I think it's a shame.

Don’t let them get under your skin, Earl. It’s entirely plausible they are behaving in such a manner specifically to provoke a negative reaction from you and others holding allegiance to the opposition.

I mean, isn’t it possible that the actions of the two Wings fans at the Ponda the other night (not to mention the acts of their fellow miscreants who leave provocative comments on fan blogs) are nothing more than some sort of sick game as a means of self-amusement?

I would think so.

And as lame and immature as that may be, what does it say about those who allow the words or actions of total strangers to dictate their emotional state? Nobody can make you angry, Earl. You allow them to make you angry. Don’t let the bastards win.

Ian said...

How about this, from someone who considers himself to be one of the good Detroit (and Yankee) fans:

Other than Yankee and Red Sox fans, who are maybe the two most annoying fanbases in sport, I think that EVERY FAN BASE IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. The ones with a lot of success will be condescending, the up-and-comers will go with the "your time is over" kind of insolence. Both are annoying.

I don't think it's a regional thing, or something in the water, or whatever. If Anaheim had three cups in the last decade and Detroit were in the Ducks' position, I have afeeling the jeering, the blogs, the comments would be absolutely reversed. Sports fans are sports fans. There are good and bad, and the types of good and bad are generally defined by the team's history and performance, not by "Motown" or "SoCal". I mean, every team that wins a championship says they have the greatest fans in the world. Who's right? No one. We're all in the same boat. There are assholes on either side, there are good ones on either side. Is this really something that needs 45 (now 46, sorry) comments of argument?

Earl Sleek said...

Spot on, Ian, and you are right about too many comments on the topic.

I'll take full blame for that (or at least share the blame with my good pal Jack Daniels)--calling the Detroit fanbase "easily the worst fanbase in the western conference" was way overstating things, and I can certainly understand why people would get defensive.

Ah, Drinky posts, you'll probably be the death of me.

Ian said...

You know Jack too? He's fun to hang out with, but yeah, he always seems to get in trouble with me taking the blame.