Takes and trash talk from both ALL sides of the NHL's most obscure PATHETIC* rivalry

* Thanks, Kevin Lowe!

Monday, June 04, 2007

How much do you hate this man?

I know there's a lot of readers here who hate this guy, whose head-seeking elbows have both had a good laugh in consecutive game fours.

Love the guy? Hate the guy? Express yourself in the comments.


Rick said...

Dear Duck Opponents:

Consider DECLINING the suspension against this man. It makes you think nothing's left, when what's left was the same team that went to the third round last year.


Anonymous said...

FanTAStic photo. Where'd you dig this up?

I don't like that I feel this way, but the elbow hits don't bother me. My love for this team has long been beyond the reach of reason.

So, yes, I love the guy. But I can dimly sense (through the haze of fandom) that I probably wouldn't be so sweet on him if he weren't a Duck.

Good thing he is. : )

american oil said...

Ok...hate the guy....but that is the Oiler in me talking.....

I would like to watch the Pronger/Pink Piranha battle though....

Anonymous said...

The line between love & hate is fine. In this case it's defined whether or not he's on your team.

Anonymous said...

My first period thoughts.

Earl Sleek said...

Very nice, flax. As you probably know, I heartily endorse adding word bubbles to anything, and yours is really funny.

If commenters don't want to touch Pronger, then how about the Sens losing their referee edge in G4? What were the contributors?

-Neil's unpenalized hit in G3?
-Neil's embellishment early in G4?
-Emery's embellishment late in period one?
-Alfie teeing the puck on Scotty Niedermayer at the close of the second?

It's an open thread about G4. Comment on whatever you wish.

Anonymous said...

I don't want to be awake, but I can't come down from this emotional high.

A moment of clarity(?): After watching replays of Alfredsson's bizarro potshot at SNieds, I have to conclude that it was a weird sort of accident. I'm not terribly familiar with the Sens captain, but it's hard for me to believe he would do something like that intentionally. Especially at center ice, in the dying moments of a period, in a tie game, when he knows all eyes are on him. At most, it was the equivalent of a hockey Freudian slip...

While I'm at it: It felt way too good to see Emery get a warning from the refs--like a bratty child getting his/her comeuppance. It felt more satisfying than a diving/unsportsmanlike conduct penalty because it's precisely what I would have liked to have done myself--give him a stern talking to. But more importantly, I thought the early dives/flops by the Senators allowed the Ducks getting away with a few things later on in the game.

Best intermission moment of the playoffs so far: Hearing Don Cherry call out Brett Hull (who spent most of the segment drooling over and pawing at Cherry) for his 1999 foot in the crease. I'm going to put that gem of a memory away in a special place. (Maybe to make room for an even special-er memory?)

Phew, a personal record for longest comment. Must have tired me out. Good night!

Anonymous said...

Well, with the Ducks 2-0 in Pronger suspension games, it looks like there's only one Chris Pronger appendage whose careless use destroys your teams W-L record...

Anonymous said...

While I recognize Chris Pronger is a good defenseman, I don't respect the guy. The thought of seeing him raise the Cup over his head makes me want to throw up (but I wouldn't mind seeing Giguere with the Cup). I don't hate him on the same level as Patrick Roy and Claude Lemieux but each postseason it grows closer to that level.

I must say I was disappointed with the Senators last night. Not with how they played, but with the diving and the Alfredsson shot at Niedermayer. Classless. I'm still "rooting" for the Sens because I can't stand Pronger, but I really don't have a team that I'm fully behind in this series.

I just hope that if the Ducks are going to win the series, they can just do it at home in front of their fans.

I must say the Ducks have really impressed me this series. While I still feel the Wings could've won (especially if we hadn't had 2 key injuries), they're definitely showing me now that they deserve to be in the finals. And to win two games in consecutive series without Pronger- impressive!

PPP said...

Alfie definitely did that on purpose and it is most certainly in his character.

I can't tell you how loud my buddies and I cheered when Penner scored.

The refs looked ready to railroad the Ducks in the first period but I have to agree that Neil and Emery probably helped turn the tide with their antics.

One more win!

PPP said...

Also, I love Pronger because he angers two sets of fans in this series :)

Anonymous said...

Pronger's a heckuva hockey player, but yeah, he's kind of a douche. He just has that air that he's had everything handed to him in life since he was about 8 years old because of his immense talent.

I'd take him on my hockey team, but I get the impression that he's one of those loner guys who the team begrudgingly accepts due to his skills, but never really embraces.

I mean, can you picture Pronger, sitting at a bar, laughing it up with his teammates? I can't.

PPP said...

In honour of Alfie's actions last night:

Anonymous said...

Ottawa fan here. Nah, I don't hate him, it's only hockey. One of the best defencemen ever I guess and he's got a mean streak a mile wide. Of course you'd want him on your team. Off ice he's a bit of a vogon but really, so what?

I would say this - he is but one part of a GREAT team.

Earl Sleek said...

Oops. I put this comment on the last post, but here it is again.

Before the playoffs, I would have said that in my opinion, the three cities that boo Pronger the loudest were (in order):

1. San Jose
2. Edmonton
3. Detroit

So how do you think this list will look next year (unfortunately, the NHL schedule does not have the Ducks going to Ottawa next season)?

Is Detroit moving up the list?

Sean Zandberg said...

So last night Scott Niedermayer was getting booed? What did he ever do?
I don't mind Pronger at all. But I didn't really care that he had left Edmonton in that fashion either. Sure it lacked class but I didn't care.
I like him as a player. He's a mean ass and he is not to be fucked with. Kind of reminds me of Joe Thornton that way. When they are cranky...look out!
Pronger has been a great defenceman for a long time and deserves to raise that Cup IMO.

Anonymous said...

I mean, can you picture Pronger, sitting at a bar, laughing it up with his teammates? I can't.

Well Pete, I've seen Pronger at a bar, as has half of the City of Edmonton. The time I saw him was a week after he was traded from St. Louis, and was treated like a superstar. Other people have seen him at the bar and in the company of his teammates, and I know of one person who attended a private house party with him. He's certainly a popular guy as a social figure, though the fact he has a wife and kids at home has to colour that perception (especially with the female fandom he has been seen to enjoy at these establishments -- you think Oiler fans made up these rumours out of boredom?).

Bryan said...

Comrie wanted out of Edmonton same way Pronger did, yet Pronger gets more grief about it. Pronger is definitely top 3 defensemen currently playing and the fact that the Ducks have 2 of them on their team is pretty historical. Like I've said, the hit on McAmmond was not intentional and I think if the refs had done their job it would have just been 2 minutes and thats it. Who wouldn't want Pronger on your team. When was the last time a Dman won the Hart? But I admit maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I werent such a fan.

Regarding G4, this really was Ottawa's chance. It was their time to really get back in the series at home, without Pronger in the lineup. And what do they do, Neil takes a dive and Emery flops. Then Alfredson drives one at Niedermayer which I don't believe was an accident, gives a Moen a pop in the face too. Classless. After that performance, Ottawa proved they don't deserve to be champions. Anyone notice on the game winner, Neil tried to take another run at McDonald and missed? That was beautiful. Huge game from McDonald and Niedermayer. Giguere played great in the first though goals under the arm still bother me. I was impressed with how well the Ducks came out after giving up that goal to end the first. Those kind of things really deflate a team (See Holmstrom's goal against SJ). Good to see Penner get something since he's been pretty MIA. Perry needs to not aim at posts, come on he practices those top corner shots every warmup. Glad Huskins got his skates sharpened between periods. Way to rally.

I agree grace, Cherry's comment to Hull was great, long overdue. Another reason why as bad as the kick in goal and other bad calls can get, it can't compare to losing that OT game.

Anonymous said...

It was a goal!

Earl Sleek said...

Comrie wanted out of Edmonton same way Pronger did, yet Pronger gets more grief about it.

That one's easy. Pronger's better.

In fact, I'll just give my perspective. Before this year, I never was pro-Pronger (he just wasn't on the right teams), but I never really hated the guy. He hurt the Ducks occasionally, but soon after he hurt them in the WCF, he was in the new uniform so even that never really materialized.

It didn't take me long to warm up to him, though, mainly because I am a sucker for high goals-for and low goals-against. Plus I was fairly shocked (I don't know why) about what a solid interview Pronger was--he was eloquent, composed, and relevant in pretty much all interviews I saw this year.

The elbows I obviously have less issues with than some (Wing fans and Sen fans, particularly). Yes, they were vicious, but I never got the sense of malicious intent--that is, I don't think Pronger expected or intended either player to not get up.

Anyway, barring another Lauren fit it looks as if Pronger's in Anaheim for a long haul (he has 3 more years on his contract, more than any other Duck). And results-wise, I'm thrilled.

I guess my take is that even the despicable players, if good enough, can still earn their way into my heart--just got to make enough difference in goal-differential.

Mike said...

I agree with everything Chris Neil said about Pronger in the telecast last night. He's a cheap shot artist, a backstabber.
But everyone would take him on their team, even (or especially) Chris Neil.

And that shouldn't have been a goal. I don't see how anyone could argue Alfredsson didn't make a kicking motion at the puck. Sure, he wasn't obviously trying to kick it directly into the goal, but he shot his foot out to get his skate on it. How is that not a 'kicking motion'? To me, it's the same as batting the puck out of the air with your hand, and having it bounce into the goal. Maybe not exactly what you planned, but it still shouldn't count.

Black Dog said...

Even as an Oiler fan I can say that i don't hate the guy. It was a huge disappointment that he left Edmonton but he had to choose between his family and staying there and that is no choice.

Were both the Holmstrom and McAmmond plays dirty? Absolutely they were and he deserved to be suspended in each case, I think. Weird actually I don't recall him playing with this type of edge last season. Anyhow, whatever. A lot of guys are a little bit dirty or a little crazy out on the ice. That includes a lot of the greats - Gordie Howe, Maurice Richard, Stan Mikita (early in his career), Bobby Clarke, Mark Messier, Scott Stevens etc etc.

Ever watch classy Steve Yzerman work that stick?

Pronger is a magnificent player - one of the best Dmen in the league, bar none.

Anonymous said...

I can't stand Chris Pronger. I'm a Wings fan and I haven't been able to stand him since his days in St. Louis. I would have to echo Christy's words in that the thought of him hoisting the Cup makes me want to hurl. I am rooting for Ottawa because of the Pronger factor. Though, I am finding that the diving and flopping of the Senators is becoming more distasteful to me. I do like Selanne and Andy McDonald and I would be happy to see them with the Cup, could they just not hand it to Pronger? Lol. Anaheim has impressed me this playoff series with their hard work and team effort. Maybe Pronger should be suspended for every game?

Anonymous said...

Earl, I'm a Detroit season ticketholder (and yes one that showed up to the playoff games). I think Edmonton will still be the capital of the Anti-Pronger Nation. But Pronger will not be able to hear all the booing, as his Stanley Cup ring will be in one ear.

Anonymous said...

By the way, who will SNied give the cup to first ? I'd bet his brother. But as sort of a "lifetime achievement" award it should go to Selanne

Earl Sleek said...

Yeah, Robby is an Assistant Captain, so I suspect that's reason enough to give the cup straight to him. Giguere's gotta have a run with it, and so does Selanne and Pronger.

Perry will probably take a dive when the cup gets directed his way, though. :)

Anonymous said...

"I'd take him on my hockey team, but I get the impression that he's one of those loner guys who the team begrudgingly accepts due to his skills, but never really embraces.

I mean, can you picture Pronger, sitting at a bar, laughing it up with his teammates? I can't."

Actually, he's purportedly one of the team's social leaders along with (interestingly enough) Scott Niedermayer. Those two apparently organize all of the extracurricular activities. Scotty is apparently very outspoken when the locker room doors are closed, something you wouldn't automatically guess.

How players act among teammates is very different from how they act in public. Scotty's a very private guy by nature, while Pronger is distrustful of the media. But in their comfort zones, things appear to be different.

Black Dog said...

Pronger is a noted chatterbox in the room - Ryan Smyth used to grumble how he just never shut up.

Bryan said...

mckeeper, i assume you're referring to Roy's reply to Roenick. Forgot about that one. Classic

Anonymous said...

Hated Pronger...that was until he came to the Ducks. Now, I love him.

Anonymous said...

BoC is the best! (But not as good as IPB, of course.)

I'm sorry Earl. I had to do it. 257 IPBucks were at stake. You know I don't mean it. I'm a totally whore for IPBucks. I'll say anything, really.

Anonymous said...

Pronger jumped onto my loathe list back several years ago when he cross-checked Brenden Morrow in the teeth. Every year he just piles on the reasons for me to hate him. I can honestly say that I don't ever want him on my team.

I was even a little upset when he joined the Oilers last season, because I like the Oilers. I tried to like him because all the Oilers fans seemed to embrace him, but I felt dirty cheering for them with him on the team. Then he proved me right again by bailing on them.

Even though the Ducks are in our division I never actually hated them until they got Pronger. I so wish they weren't about to win the Cup.

MAN! I hate that guy.

--Patty in Dallas

Anonymous said...

Hee hee, thanks Kate! But.. since we owe 95% of our readership to Earl and the good readers of BoC, here's 514 IPBucks to you, Earl, double Kate's bounty.

Oh, and love or hate Pronger? Yeah, that'd be a hate.

Niekon said...

without BoC (ok, without Earl) I would not have heard of the IPB gals... and now IPB has taken on a life of its own with all the Crunchy and Baby Crunchy and Motzkonation talk ^_^

and then you toss me into the mix and it's a concoction worthy of being made into some sort of mind-numbing alcoholic beverage. Okay, I lie... I read and comment little... ^_~

american oil said...

I think I speak for all the Girls when I say.... IPB wouldn't be the same without Earl's magical insights (cat ears excluded)!

BoC rocks.......and I don't even like any of the teams in Cali...but I just keep reading!

RudyKelly said...

I hate Chris Pronger because people argued that Pronger was superior to Blake when Blake was in his prime, and that is obviously ridiculous. Plus, Pronger gets mad when someone dares to hit him (like Brown has done in the past), so I find that arrogant.

Anonymous said...

Pronger was under contract when he left, while Comrie wasn't. I mean, Oil fans still hate Comrie, and he seemed like quite the douche for demanding more money from an organization his father is part owner of, but he didn't demand out of his airtight contract soon after signing it.

dbushik said...

People are pretty dillusional if they think they can gauge this guys character just from what they see of him based on his celebrity. Can you see this guy hanging out with friends at a bar laughing it up? What kind of question is that? He is human, so the clear and obvious answer is, well yes, I could see him acting like a normal human being. The bigger questions that raises for me is what are you thinking even pretending you can judge a guy like that without a lot of personal knowledge and what the heck does that have to do with anything?

People thinking this way on celebrities is why we currently have a President that is a disater of epic proportion, but who people think they would feel confortable having a beer with (you know, in the time he isn't spending destroying the world).

Okay, but back to the question. Everyone will agree, surely, that Mark Messier is one of the all time greats of the game, right there in that second tier after you talk Gretzky and Richard and Orr, etc. He's also considered one of the greatest leaders of men in any sport. Okay, anyone ever see him go into the corners with his elbows down? If this guy wasn't cheating he simply wasn't trying hard enough, and this guy cared way to much every shift to ever be accussed of not trying hard enough.

Pronger is very similar in that respect. He is going to play dirty, and he is also one of the best there is in the game. Fans who support teams he's on are going to love him, and the opposition is going to hate him. Largely just speaks to the fact that he is effective.

I'd personally have to say I hate him...but of course I'd love him on my team. I really don't have any great lack of respect for the game with the way he plays the game either.

There is also that thing of fans hating players who leave their team. Fans seem to think it's okay for owners to act like this is a business, but then get all bent out of shape when players act that way. They want the players to give in on everything during the lock-out because of the business reality, but then when a player walks from their team because there is a lack of personal loyalty to the team or because there is money to be made elsewhere, they suck for doing it.

I think that's pretty ridiculous. Comrie wanted money EDM didn't want to give him. But the fans don't see it as business, it's the home-town hero turned heel story instead. Pronger's family situation was bad in EDM, so he kept his mouth shut through the season, nearly got them a Cup, and only then after the season asked to be traded and asked for his family's privacy to be respected. So, of course the fans and media said thanks to him for what he had contributed and too bad it couldn't work out, right? Nope, he's knocked up a local TV anchor is the story and he's vilified because he thought of family first over hockey.

Of course it's not just EDM, there is the whole Blake thing with the Kings that was right in my front yard. Coming into the year before UFA status, the team came to the guy and demanded he sign for well below market value or they would trade him during training camp. They had already removed his image from the fan give-away schedule magnet (manufactured well before the start of the season), yet they claimed they weren't determined to trade him and it was all up to Blake and what he was demanding of the team. So do fans see that the team is openly playing hard ball with their best player, low balling the guy and throing out trade ultimatums, while claiming to be the victim? Of course not, Blake is evil, boo him for years on end (including during the ASG at Staples, how's that for classy?).

Here's something I was thinking about with all the officiating issues that is kind of related. The Ducks have chosen to play a game that is very chippy. Okay, they get a lot of advantage out of that physical play that fans love. Well, they are also going to get a lot of penalties because they play that way that are both good and bad calls. When you chose to walk that path, you really aren't going to get much benefit of the doubt on the questionable calls. Okay, now Ducks fans and players need to learn to live with that and stop all the crying.

Not commenting on anything specific here on this site, but in general both the players and the fans need to accept the reality.

When lifting a Cup over their heads, I'm pretty sure it will be apparent to all that the trade-off between what you gain from playing so close to the line and the penalties you'll take because of that will be worth it or not.

Okay, is that enough ranting from me today? :)